Curse

arnansnow · Jul 08, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

I think there should be different races as well

like have one mursaat character and one char character....thatd be cool

I would like seeing Forgotten and Dwarf as well.

Mursaat would be the cheapest in low-level arenas, as no one there has infused armor

Sir Skullcrasher · Jul 08, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

don't worry, in the expansion they will add new character class, heck if A-net is cool, they would let us play as the charrs or as some of the enemies

Xeno Blueriver · Jul 18, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

I think Guild Wars would be a lot more fun for people if they learned how to role play. I grew up playing Dungeons and Dragons with friends, and if someone in the group did something wrong (like make a horde of enemies run after us) we wouldn't start yelling "you're a stupid n00b, I'm so great and you're a stupid-head man!" Or something along those lines. If we did that then the dungeon master would strike all of us with lightning for being out of character.

Pretend that you're not yourself, like you're the character you're playing.. rather than saying "don't aggro" try something like "you must be cautious not to attract more beasts than our swords can handle". Rather than saying "r/me lfg for underworld" (like everyone else), try saying "is there any group brave enough to venture with me into the underworld?" - it'll stick out more and you might have a better chance of getting into a group. This is something I've been doing recently and it makes the game more interesting to play.

Aniewiel · Jul 18, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeno Blueriver

I think Guild Wars would be a lot more fun for people if they learned how to role play. I grew up playing Dungeons and Dragons with friends, and if someone in the group did something wrong (like make a horde of enemies run after us) we wouldn't start yelling "you're a stupid n00b, I'm so great and you're a stupid-head man!" Or something along those lines. If we did that then the dungeon master would strike all of us with lightning for being out of character.

Pretend that you're not yourself, like you're the character you're playing.. rather than saying "don't aggro" try something like "you must be cautious not to attract more beasts than our swords can handle". Rather than saying "r/me lfg for underworld" (like everyone else), try saying "is there any group brave enough to venture with me into the underworld?" - it'll stick out more and you might have a better chance of getting into a group. This is something I've been doing recently and it makes the game more interesting to play.

While I agree with you in spirit as a long-time NWN player, I have to disagree since GW really doesn't lend itself to roleplaying. It is far too linear a world for that and there's no real 'mystery' to it.

BurningPants · Jul 18, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

I know I'm late on posting for this topic but maybe I can save a few people. Do not dismiss PvP after your first few attempts at it. I did my first PvP fight before there were many decked out characters in the Ascalon arena so the challenge was still significant. After a while though, I left the Ascalon arena to finish the rest of the game, and I had an extraoridnary time doing it. However, like most of the people who got bored, I said to myself "What's the point now?". Then it came to me...the name of the game is GUILD Wars, so big surprise, I joined a guild. My first guild was more of a social club than a competitive team so again I became bored. I left that train-wreck of a guild and joined a more competitive one. That's when I did my first GvG battle, and it was quite fun to say the least. I dunno, there's something about watching your guild rank get better that really makes the game enjoyable. After awhile though, that guild became somewhat defunct so a few guild mates and decided to leave.

So again I joined a new guild, slightly larger and much more competitive (Holy Knights Clan). They mostly played in the Tomb of Primeval Kings which is where the PvP of the game really is. Before I started to fight though, I download vent and ts and I also bought a mic, seeing as how impossible it is to win without them. Before I knew it, I was in some pick up team with a few guild mates fighting some European players. We slaughtered them. At this point I said to myself, "This is what the hype is all about? There's no point if it's this easy". Again I spoke to soon. I was in the Burial Mounds with bunch of other teams, some Korean, some European, some American, some pick ups and some guilds. The first team we fought took us 10 minutes to beat and it was quite a hard earned victory. Then we came up against the rest of the world and then subsequently demolished.

My first Tomb PvP experience was over and I couldn't help feel a sense of satisfaction. Even though we had lost, I knew that because of this facet of the game, the longevity of Guild Wars was increased by a huge factor. After a few more tomb battles, I began to construct some intricate and precise builds(skill and character set ups) for 8 player teams. It's actually quite fun to see them work, sometimes well enough to get you as far as the hall of heroes. Now I'm making new GW team mates and friends simply because of this rather underestimated aspect of the game.

My point? Try getting into the PvP more, create a PvP character. You may say to yourself "But people only want Healing/Spirits/Smiters/Air Ele/KDAS.". I say to you, "I have almost never seen a team focussed on these specific builds get very far in the Hall because most well balanced teams can wipe out today's popluar builds.". So go ahead and create that minion master necro, or that illusionary mesmer or that water magic warrior. Find a smooth and well working skill set and try to make friends. Join a guild which facilitates your needs, not one that only plays often or only talks often and remember, PvP and PvE are very, and I am emphasizing "very", different games.

As for those of you don't like the fact that the level limit is only twenty or that a swordsmanship pommel has only a 20% chance that it will have any affect, move on and wait for the next game to come along and leave Guild Wars alone. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

nineinchnails · Jul 18, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

GW has a few things that work against it in the long run. I've played through Ascension, but have not been motivated to play the last few missions or PvP.
Here are the main problems for me, most of which have been mentioned:

1. Lack of variety in items, everything looks the same, item stats are all the same.

2. Missions are too long; not for the casual player. I don't want to dedicate 1-2 hours for each mission. I can see that for a few major bosses, but not every mission. That is too much time, especially when you have to play with a team for certain missions. That means you are committed, even if your house catches fire.

3. Skill combos are not as interesting as D2 synergies.

4. There is no variation in storyline. Way too linear. Only very small parts of the game differ based on profession, and most of that is pre-searing. Contrast this with the wild storyline shifts in Baldurs Gate 2 and NWN.

There are many things I like about GW, like the graphics detail, and I've gotten my money's worth. But I'm not sure it has long term staying power. Maybe the expansions will prove me wrong. I've been spending most of my time back in D2 recently.

MSecorsky · Jul 18, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineinchnails

GW has a few things that work against it in the long run. I've played through Ascension, but have not been motivated to play the last few missions or PvP.
Here are the main problems for me, most of which have been mentioned:

1. Lack of variety in items, everything looks the same, item stats are all the same.

2. Missions are too long; not for the casual player. I don't want to dedicate 1-2 hours for each mission. I can see that for a few major bosses, but not every mission. That is too much time, especially when you have to play with a team for certain missions. That means you are committed, even if your house catches fire.

3. Skill combos are not as interesting as D2 synergies.

4. There is no variation in storyline. Way too linear. Only very small parts of the game differ based on profession, and most of that is pre-searing. Contrast this with the wild storyline shifts in Baldurs Gate 2 and NWN.

There are many things I like about GW, like the graphics detail, and I've gotten my money's worth. But I'm not sure it has long term staying power. Maybe the expansions will prove me wrong. I've been spending most of my time back in D2 recently.

Forget the other games and how they do things. This isn't D2, it's Guild Wars, and things are done differently. Once you accept that, then things begins to make better sense.

theclam · Jul 18, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineinchnails

1. Lack of variety in items, everything looks the same, item stats are all the same.

I agree. There needs to be more items. The upshot of this, of course, is that you don't need to grind for hours in order to remain competitive, like in D2 or WoW.

Quote:

2. Missions are too long; not for the casual player. I don't want to dedicate 1-2 hours for each mission. I can see that for a few major bosses, but not every mission. That is too much time, especially when you have to play with a team for certain missions. That means you are committed, even if your house catches fire.

Pretty much all the missions can be completed with henchmen. If you are using henchmen, in most of the missions, you can just leave the computer running, with your character still in the mission, if something comes up. I haven't found this to be a problem, but then again, I'm a student, so I have a very flexible schedule.

Quote:

3. Skill combos are not as interesting as D2 synergies.

I actually find them to be more interesting. GW has around 5 times as many skills per character as D2. Plus, none of them are of the Firebolt-Fireball or Cold Arrow-Ice Arrow-Freezing Arrow variety, where you never your prerequisite skills after getting a better skill. In addition, you can change your skillbar around, as much as you like. I think GW gives more freedom, choice, and room for strategy, in addition to having more interesting and diverse skills.[/quote]

Quote:

4. There is no variation in storyline. Way too linear. Only very small parts of the game differ based on profession, and most of that is pre-searing. Contrast this with the wild storyline shifts in Baldurs Gate 2 and NWN.

This is true. The plot is weak.

Quote:

There are many things I like about GW, like the graphics detail, and I've gotten my money's worth. But I'm not sure it has long term staying power. Maybe the expansions will prove me wrong. I've been spending most of my time back in D2 recently.

I think GW's staying power depends on how much you like to PvP. There really isn't that much to do in the PvE endgame, but that's epidemic to online RPGs. Every one that I've played either ends abruptly once you beat the game or has you fighting the same bosses or dungeons over and over again. I think this is an issue that the whole genre needs to address.

Aria · Jul 18, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Since there's still a shred of intelligent discussion left in this thread, I won't close it for now. However, to many of you that will be getting warnings in the next few minutes, please please refrain from indulging in flames, personal attacks, trolling, troll baiting, troll feeding, etc. To everyone, if you see a post that attacks another individual, or even you, please use the report option instead of launching into a fiery counterattack aimed at the person him/herself, and not at the person's argument.

Let's all have a discussion.. not a flame war.

Please keep it constructive, guys.

Thank you.

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 18, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineinchnails

1. Lack of variety in items, everything looks the same, item stats are all the same.

i dont like to speak ill of my favourite game, but sadly i have to agree 100% with this, every item (blue,purple,orange) are exactly the same, i rarely ever get excited about finding anything because i know its normaly going to be precious or highly salvageable

but Anet needs to get more into making diffrent items much like bizzard did with their games

MSecorsky · Jul 18, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Hundreds upon hundreds of skills out there.. and you're worried about what an item looks like?

Please keep in mind, GW is a game about the skills and skill involved, not the armor or thingies.

Sir Skullcrasher · Jul 18, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Hundreds upon hundreds of skills out there.. and you're worried about what an item looks like?

Please keep in mind, GW is a game about the skills and skill involved, not the armor or thingies.

if a-net make items all unique looking than it would also miss with the economy of GW. here the deal, say they give each weapons a different look depending on what type is it (blue, purple, and gold) since a certain items would look different, than people would have to pay 50k or more for it. I just don't see any big deal with getting unique items, i mean i got 2 gold hammers, and 2 puprle one. I don't care how it look, just as long the stats for those weapons is good enough.

Stev0 · Jul 18, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Well ... people play games for entertainment.

Many would figure that it should be the type of entertainment that has some kind of meaning. For example, like being faced with an obstacle and overcoming it to gain a reward. If you take away the reward you are left questioning why you are even facing the obstacle to begin with.

No advancing beyond level 20 makes me think; Why bother to get more XP?
XP rewards not proportionate with challenge level gives less meaning to take on quests/missions since an important quest vital to the survival of our people is worth -500 xp- ooooooo......
Completion of the game means just that. There's just no reason to keep playing. Doing it over again is just masachistic in any form after the first time around.
Taking on creatures that yield up little or no reward is just a pain lending to the idea; Why bother the rinse repeat play, again tedious.

What's left to do? I have'nt even completed the game and I am flush out of interest, being turned off by the ridiculous and useless treasure yields that force people to stand around for hours typing WTS/WTB spam and asking for inhuman amounts of gold that only the devout player can offer up.

I point at Guild Wars's advertisement that indicates a player need not spend alot of time playing, just quality time.

Well, I played that quality time and my rewards are too few to count and I refuse to 'give up my life' to play a game just to get the items/skills I need.

MSecorsky · Jul 18, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

if a-net make items all unique looking than it would also miss with the economy of GW. here the deal, say they give each weapons a different look depending on what type is it (blue, purple, and gold) since a certain items would look different, than people would have to pay 50k or more for it. I just don't see any big deal with getting unique items, i mean i got 2 gold hammers, and 2 puprle one. I don't care how it look, just as long the stats for those weapons is good enough.

Bingo. Words of wisdom. Unfortunately the hangovers from your WOW or D2 "thing" based games still linger and fog peoples minds. Realistically speaking, the damage between some of the top items and a little further down the food chain are only a matter of a few points. It's not the size of the hammer, people, it's how well you use the skills to swing it.

MSecorsky · Jul 18, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stev0

Well ... people play games for entertainment.

Many would figure that it should be the type of entertainment that has some kind of meaning. For example, like being faced with an obstacle and overcoming it to gain a reward. If you take away the reward you are left questioning why you are even facing the obstacle to begin with.

No advancing beyond level 20 makes me think; Why bother to get more XP?
XP rewards not proportionate with challenge level gives less meaning to take on quests/missions since an important quest vital to the survival of our people is worth -500 xp- ooooooo......
Completion of the game means just that. There's just no reason to keep playing. Doing it over again is just masachistic in any form after the first time around.
Taking on creatures that yield up little or no reward is just a pain lending to the idea; Why bother the rinse repeat play, again tedious.

What's left to do? I have'nt even completed the game and I am flush out of interest, being turned off by the ridiculous and useless treasure yields that force people to stand around for hours typing WTS/WTB spam and asking for inhuman amounts of gold that only the devout player can offer up.

I point at Guild Wars's advertisement that indicates a player need not spend alot of time playing, just quality time.

Well, I played that quality time and my rewards are too few to count and I refuse to 'give up my life' to play a game just to get the items/skills I need.

You get more XP beyond level 20 for the really important things... Skills.

These rediculous and useless treasures you speak of are on par with all other items in the game, making them neither useless nor rediculous. Consider the items in the scope of the game, not compared to uber-items from inferior item-based games.

If your rewards are too few to count.. perhaps you've failed to see the rewards you've gotten.

StandardAI · Jul 18, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

The game would be fun if everyone in your guild didn't have to grind for 1000+ hours to fight at their full potential. What's the solution? When you beat pve, you should get a uas, or near a uas. Arenanet doesn't care and now nearly every good guild is now broken/disbanded and the ladder is now a complete joke.

So, Here's the cycle of how the game works for your average Joe.

First 40-60 hours, they beat the game. Next 10-20 hours they PvP thinking they're done with everything.

This is the part where most people quit somewhere through here.

Then they realise they need a lot more skills to compete and start up a second toon. Spend another 40-60 hours in pve and beat the game again, spend the next 10-20 hours PvPing and realising they still don't have enough skills to play. So then they just figure they'll use faction points but then they find out that the faction isn't nearly as fast as the pve way. So they spend the next 800-1000 hours unlocking through pvp, or they spend the next 300-400 hours repeating PvE to unlock.

Nizzim · Jul 18, 2005, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stev0

Well ... people play games for entertainment.

Many would figure that it should be the type of entertainment that has some kind of meaning. For example, like being faced with an obstacle and overcoming it to gain a reward. If you take away the reward you are left questioning why you are even facing the obstacle to begin with.

No advancing beyond level 20 makes me think; Why bother to get more XP?
XP rewards not proportionate with challenge level gives less meaning to take on quests/missions since an important quest vital to the survival of our people is worth -500 xp- ooooooo......
Completion of the game means just that. There's just no reason to keep playing. Doing it over again is just masachistic in any form after the first time around.
Taking on creatures that yield up little or no reward is just a pain lending to the idea; Why bother the rinse repeat play, again tedious.

What's left to do? I have'nt even completed the game and I am flush out of interest, being turned off by the ridiculous and useless treasure yields that force people to stand around for hours typing WTS/WTB spam and asking for inhuman amounts of gold that only the devout player can offer up.

I point at Guild Wars's advertisement that indicates a player need not spend alot of time playing, just quality time.

Well, I played that quality time and my rewards are too few to count and I refuse to 'give up my life' to play a game just to get the items/skills I need.

thats what i've been trying to get out this whole time, so thank you very much for that.

I wasnt trying to flame anyone. But i voiced my oppinion and got shot at, so I defended myself. Who could blame me, I was really only looking for the people who agreed with me to come in and discuss what to improve upon.

the bottom line is: the game needs work. Admit it or not, its true.

The items do need to be varied, Why grind for hours on end to find a hammer that looks the same as every other whote hammer youve gotten? Or why grind to find a golden hammer thats only one point stronger than a hammer you found in a chest?

The grind/reward ratio isnt fair. People say that the game wasnt designed for people to grind in and it wasnt meant for people to play it a lot. But that doesnt mean it shouldnt change.

A game, no matter what game, should reward you for youre amount of play. If you played day in a day out from now till new years, wouldnt you want a 60ft warrior with flaming armor and a lightsaber?

I know I would, rewards are just something to show for youre effort.

The people that say this game is skill based, let me ask you. If its so skill based, and weapons arent the focus of the game, then why bother having them at all? What I'm saying is, if youre gonna put weapons in, dont half-ass them like Anet did. The caps on weapon dmg is very low and the mods arent that great.

Plenty of things can be improved upon.

With that said, I'm amazed this is on front page again, go me!

Eclectic · Jul 18, 2005, 10:16 PM // 22:16

I've gotten a few pages in and am tired of the thread, but wanted to say something. Getting down on someone not because of their viewpoint but because something has been discussed before is failing to see the nature of one of these game forums. If I were to wade through the older posts I'd bet I'd come up with 200 topics that have been talked through and through, and yet new posts on those subjects come up all the time. It's the nature of the forum. You have a complaint, idea, or observation and you want to talk to others about it. If you plan to stifle this because someone, somewhen talked about it before, pretty soon you've got nothing but old, old threads being occasionally added to and lots of complaining the rest of the time. One of my little aggravations with reading the forum is seeing people try to shut off discussion because they've read another thread about it sometime. Feel free to link to such threads if they're germaine, but really complaining about someone posting something at all on this basis isn't productive. Taking this attitude to its logical conclusion would mean the board would die quickly because all the topics would be discussed in old posts. Guess I'm just tired of the board nazis who only want to talk about something once.

Nizzim · Jul 18, 2005, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclectic

I've gotten a few pages in and am tired of the thread, but wanted to say something. Getting down on someone not because of their viewpoint but because something has been discussed before is failing to see the nature of one of these game forums. If I were to wade through the older posts I'd bet I'd come up with 200 topics that have been talked through and through, and yet new posts on those subjects come up all the time. It's the nature of the forum. You have a complaint, idea, or observation and you want to talk to others about it. If you plan to stifle this because someone, somewhen talked about it before, pretty soon you've got nothing but old, old threads being occasionally added to and lots of complaining the rest of the time. One of my little aggravations with reading the forum is seeing people try to shut off discussion because they've read another thread about it sometime. Feel free to link to such threads if they're germaine, but really complaining about someone posting something at all on this basis isn't productive. Taking this attitude to its logical conclusion would mean the board would die quickly because all the topics would be discussed in old posts. Guess I'm just tired of the board nazis who only want to talk about something once.

....go make a thread about it why dont ya

MSecorsky · Jul 18, 2005, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

With that said, I'm amazed this is on front page again, go me!

That's because you have a clash of two mindsets here that may never agree with each other, the things vs the skills so to speak. GW isn't going to appeal to the things group simply because items aren't the central focus of the games strategies or capabilities. Besides, with the balance in the game, a couple points here and there can make a difference, however the real difference will be in the skills you've found and how you wield them. For example, a different thread has a guy mentioning his mez trick of using arcane thievery and arcane echo.... cast echo then thievery, echo becomes thievery allowing him to steal and shutdown two of the targets skills rapidly. That's the type of thing that GW is built around, not the size of your lightsabre.

Back to the point, however... if you can't shake an item mentality with this game then you're going to be disappointed. However, for GW to shift to an item based game it would destroy the balance and the intent of GW. Stopping at level 20, for example, is a very deliberate and calculated act. The intent behind it, imo, is brilliant and refreshing in a world of D2 style games where level 99s run around with 2000 defense armor and kill you with a sneeze, ruining your attempts to spank Mephisto's buttocks.

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.